FAO Peter Hain
A message for you Peter, from an anonymous commenter on the previous post.
Voted against the war [sic]? Watched other cabinet ministers resign on principle? Has always thought the war and tactics totally wrong? Decided to stay in government? Who voted against an inquiry into the criminal war approval process?
Who now feels confident enough to speak out and try and wash his hands of responsibility?
So you didn’t agree with the war, you knew it was wrong and saw Robin Cook and Clare Short show you the correct course of action, yet you stayed in government. You have collected your money while soldiers are dying for your government. You swapped your integrity, self respect and credibility for the perks of high office. When the people you were elected to represent wanted an inquiry you voted against. Why would someone who opposed the decision to go to war and its conduct want to stop a public inquiry? Surely it would have justified your own personal view and your government surely has nothing to hide has it?
You opposed the inquiry to save your corrupt government in an act of pure self-interest. You fucking coward. Spineless wankers like you are the reason British troops are dying in a war started by wilful criminal deceit. Maybe if one more minister had the morals of Cook and Short the war could have been avoided. Greed over responsibility, spin over honesty and then shirk the responsibility. You need to write to every family of those killed and injured and apologise for betraying our armed forces, no bollocks about spreading democracy or war on terror, just beg their forgiveness.
Yes you will resign. I thought I better spell it out as you will get no guidance on the decent thing to do from those around you in cabinet. All so Gordon Brown, your new boss if you play ball, can try and pretend it was nothing to do with anyone but Tony. In the real world, away from Westminster, your actions are viewed as those of a worthless individual, with not a scrap of common decency; a coward.
You accepted the responsibility of government that sent troops to their death when you knew it was wrong, help suppress the truth and now confess publicly how it was nothing to do with you. Unless you haven’t noticed they are still there mate. You should be charged with something serious, very serious.
Be under no illusion it was Bliar's war, Labour's war with help from the Tory's who remain scared of doing the right thing.
For a more detailed review of Peter Hain's position on the war - see
(My critics are wrong: they are merely propping up a dictator...)
There is vigorous public debate about Britain's support for UN sanctions on Iraq. I have no intention of ducking this debate, because I am convinced Britain's policy is right.
And his attack on dinner party critics:
The leader had 'got the message' about their displeasure, Hain said, arguing that those who still disagreed over Iraq or civil liberties should reopen the arguments after the election.
The argument never closed Peter...
Hain should also be
Hain should also be remembered for being
1) the man who said that the IAEA had got it wrong (when the IAEA said that there was no evidence that Iraq had a nuclear weapons programme) and said that there was other evidence (when the IAEA said that the Niger yellow cake documents were not authentic)
2) the man who said a lot about "gratuitous French vetoes" (a line of thinking that eventually led to Blair arguing that it was OK to invade Iraq without a "second resolution")
Some explanation from Hain about these issues is required, methinks.
HAIN WAR-MONGREL Thanks for
HAIN WAR-MONGREL
Thanks for the reminders , Guano, we'all need em. A few links and we'll be ready for when he goes for deputysheriff.
Mostfrogs rather gratuitously happy the coffins not coming back here too, but little schadenfreude detected I'm glad to say. Just sorrow at the Stupidity and Waste.
editPS Just read the 2nd link above. Yummy. He even brings in "Appeasement", the surefire argument of the neocon warmongrel.
HAINWATCH -ZIZ
HAINWATCH -ZIZ reposted--
""""
Honesty ? Consistency ? Decency ? Truth from Peter Hain?
If you are expecting any of these qualities from the wannabe New Labour Deputy Party Leader (and he hopes Deputy PM)will be as disapointed as Bathsheba Everdebne was with the swash and buckle of Sergeant Troy. His latest dishonesty (of many) is best described as follows.
Mr Peter Hain appointed Mrs Bertha McDougall as Interim Commissioner for Victims and Survivors of the Troubles last year.
Bertha is is the widow of a police reservist killed by the INLA (Dirty Catholic bastards) in 1981 and her appointment and the method of appointment was challenged by Brenda Downes, whose husband Sean was killed by an RUC (Dirty Prod bastards) plastic bullet in west Belfast in 1984.
Having reviewed the appointment Mr Justice Girvan taking the role of Solomon, said the appointment of Bertha McDougall by Mr Peter Hain, was in breach of "the accepted merit norms concerning public appointments" and he also called for a high-level inquiry.
Mr Justice Girvan held that Mr Hain had been motivated by an improper political purpose, namely a confidence-building gesture to the DUP. (What they used to call gerrymandering)
The judge ruled Mr Hain had failed to take account of the fact there was no evidential basis for concluding that Mrs McDougall would command cross-community support....which doesn't need a degree in post conflict studies in Northern Ireland to work out.
What this means , is Peter Hain has been caught bang to rights in the process of hornswoggling, influence peddling, public office jiggery pokery to buy off Ian Paisley's DUP in the vain hope this would help buy their support for political agreement on power sharing with the IRA Sinn Fein.
Don't hold yer breath that an enquiry is going to start real soon now. Don't get me going ...as I was going to mention his silence on the Question Time panel when the matter of the Israeli cluster bombing of the Lebanon, the killing of civilians on an industrial scale etc., was left to happen by the Dear Leader as the Cabinet sat silently ...etc., etc.,
"""
just doing some housework there, multithreads are bad noos.
Interesting that Cook and
Interesting that Cook and Short are held up as such sterling figures in comparison to Hain. That would be Robin "I'm quite sure those Hawks we're selling to Indonesia won't be used to murder East Timorese civilians, even though I criticised the Tories with the claim that they would be used for just that" Cook and Claire "I'm bitterly opposed to the Iraq war but I'll stay on a bit longer and support the resolution anyway" Short.
At the End of the day, almost all politicos = hypocrites.
in defense of cook, he
in defense of cook, he actually fought against BAe supplying indonesia with those planes and was overruled by none other than tony blair even with cook objecting in cabinet meetings. had he resigned back then he'd have done no good at all because it was a relatively small issue, instead he bided his time so he could quit for something a bit more substantial.
HAINthread.Yes Andy, a
HAINthread.Yes Andy, a question very many of us are asking.
Due to the construction of this site, it is very difficult to maintain an ongoing argument; either we are interrupted by off-thread bombers, and/or a new thread is started by BW. And previous relevant posts get lost. Many posters answer in their own way the header-post, ignoring completely the previous comments.
No need to continue , maybe BW will do some thinking on it.
Increasingly in recent months it has become the norm to blame the citizenry for their disenchantment with mainstream politics.
Falling turnout figures exist. I did my quick calculation the last time TB 'won', and arrived at 22%.
Once upon a time, Hain was a sort of hero. In 1966/8 Jack Straw was the lefty Pres of the NUS, addressing us students in Cheltenham.
Since then they have become machine politicians, with careers, Orwellian-ly different animals indeed.
At least Straw deviated a little on Iran, and then got punished.
Hain remains as one of the smooth-talkers in place, but thanks to posts above, WE will not forget.
Choosing between Tweedledum and the other one, or Dems and GOP in the US, are our self-called democracies really that worthwhile and worth copying ?
HAIN is just another war- mongrel. No heart, no soul, no empathy, no fuckall.
Next week Blair and Bono go to Davos. The World Economic Forum, or summink. A few years back Bill Gates stood up -- "the world belongs to us now" and all the mothas applauded.
Hain belongs to that gang.
Sorry Anon. That came after
Sorry Anon. That came after Bernie Ecclestone and more.
Normal human beings do not easily allow themselves to be over-ruled, but maybe I'm long out of touch with blair britain as to how I define normal.
An 'ethical dimension to foreign policy' has a cost. Cook folded.
Eventually he resigned .
How long was Hain intending
How long was Hain intending to keep quiet if Tony hadnt been derailed? If he hadnt needed to change horses for another year he would have sat watching people get killed would he??
Send him a white feather. I cannot understand why the press are not making more of it......oh no I am not.
How long was Hain intending
How long was Hain intending to keep quiet if Tony hadnt been derailed? If he hadnt needed to change horses for another year he would have sat watching people get killed would he??
Send him a white feather. I cannot understand why the press are not making more of it......oh no I am not.
There's an interesting piece
There's an interesting piece in The Independent critiquing Hain's position.
http://comment.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/article2165429.ece
As the Independent says, Hain's outburst won't do the trick. It won't convince many people that he is really aware of what's going on or good at analysing issues properly. It may simply confirm their prejudice that he's a typical opportunistic politician. He still hasn't explained why he failed to see things that the public could see four years ago.
Hain was vociferous in telling people that they should "get behind the Iraq elections". Hain failed to see that Iraq had become a failed state: the State had collapsed with the invasion. Holding elections in such a context, with a nation descending into violence, simply hands power to one faction. It does nothing to build institutions or create stability. Calling for elections is just political grandstanding.
Has Hain realised this? Has Hain actually understood the Bushies, beyond an eventual realisation that they're very right-wing? Has he realised that he "got behind" adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan with a big conradiction at their heart: adventures that require a commitment to nation-building, state reconstruction, institution-building, stability-building led by a bunch of people who are uninterested, and even uncomfortable with, these processes? One outburst, however many good sound-bites it had in it, isn't sufficient to show that Hain has really been paying attention.
The rats are certainly
The rats are certainly beginning to abandon HMS Tony.