Glorification of Fascism: Labour Support for Guantanamo Bay Part II

Interviewer - Since this is the first time we have had a chance to talk to you since the UN issued it's report on Guantanamo Bay, I wonder if I could ask you about that?
The PM has said it's an 'anomaly', Peter Hain has said he would rather it was closed, what, what's your view?

Jack - Well, it is indeed an anomaly, and it, it, in a sense the US recognises that, but what has to be appreciated is why the US felt forced to detain people in this way, and, when you read some of the press in Europe, you'd think they did this out of spite or something. They did it because of September the 11th, because there was this huge terrorist organisation based in Afghanistan wich was intent no only on committing further Sept 11ths, but on such large scale terrorist activity elsewhere in the world. September the 11th changed the politics of the US and of the security situation for ever, just as, if Sept 11th had not hapened in New York and Washington, but had for example taken out Canary Wharf with, with the death of 3000 people there, it would have completely changed our politics.

Interviewer - Yes, but does that mean we would have had a Guantanamo Bay if that had happened?

Jack - Well, we would have faced a very serious situation, I'm just telling you - and in unpredictable ways. Th US have therefore picked up a lot of people who are very very dangerous people. They have released a large number. Um, they have released all the British Citizens who were detained there. The question now is, what happens to those who are left and it's a very big issue for the US administration. I'm quite clear that the US administration, um, wants this issue resolved, Im absolutely certain about that. But, they will hardly be serving not only their own citizens but everybody else in the world if they were suddenly to release people who could well go back into insurgency. That is...

Interviewer - There are lots of other things they could do though, I mean they could charge them with crimes and so forth - Do you associate yourself with Peter Hain's comment, would you like him, lite to see Guantanamo Bay closed?

Jack - Well, look, I'd like to see the situation different, I wish September the 11th had never happened. i'm quite clear, I'm absolutely clear that the US has no intention of maintaining a Gulag in Guantanamo Bay. They want to see the situation resolved, and they would like it other than it is.
However, that's the situation they have, and let me also say that the, as I understand it, the International Committee of the Red Cross has continued to visit Guantanamo Way, Bay. I think that it is, in addition the case that conditions were not satisfactory whan Guantanamo Bay was first established as a camp, conditions have significantly improved since then. And as I say, a large number of people have been released or taken to trial. the problem is what to do with those who are left, and that as John Reid has said is a matter which the US administration are going to have to make their own decisions on and frankly, I'm not going to second guess decisions which they make.

Interviewer - Well, alright. Let me put to you a comment from the Chairman of the Foreign Affaies Select Committee Mike Gapes who said there was a feeling amonst MPs, thinking I think of your back benchers, that a more forceful statement on this question should be made, and he said the reason it wasn't being was he said" because I suspect it is part of a general approach to speak quietly to the Americans and not make big public statements.

Jack - Well, er, ahem, there is err, it would, these things, the easiest thing in Foreign Policy, or policy generally to make loud public statements. The question then, er is er, is anything achieved by those?
Erm, and for sure sometimes it is neccesary to speak sharply in particular situations, er, but I'm er, clear that the position that the PM, John Reid, and er may I suggest I have taken in respect of Guantanamo bay and other issues is the appropriate one...

Interviewer - But not Peter Hain I see?

Jack - And whilst, er and Peter, whilst I understand, of course I understand the concern. er people in Britain, people in Europe and indeed people in the US have, about Guantanamo Bay, it's also important to recognise there's another side to this which id called September the 11th. Which is not the invention of the CIA, it was a decision by al-Qaeda, er, with a complicit failing state in Afghanistan to go in for the worst terrorist outrages the world has ever seen. And that would have continued unless there had been the military action that was taken against the Taliban, wirh consequences that some hundreds of very bad terrorists were picked up, thay had to be detained in circumstances which previous systems of international law had ever ever anticipated. That's the Problem.

Interviewer - Jack Straw, Many thanks.